UPDATE on the update:
Really???!!! Only two people out there have anything to say about prayer???? (Thank you Megan and Beth!). I'm hoping that we can generate more of a discussion than the three of us. Maybe some of you are taking time to think before you write (something I'm not very good at, as I'm sure most of you have witnessed!).
C'mon!!!! DISCUSS!!!!!!
Pretty please?
: )
First, for the update.
I had a great time at the lake with V and G and think Son #3 really enjoyed having G here to tube with and hang out with.
You all know that we came home a day early, due to the break down of an AC unit.
Well the next day, an AC unit here broke down.
And it was all I could do to hold it together.
But I managed. Not easily, but finally.
My brother and his family came down from Oklahoma (yes, they have decided to move to Oklahoma, rather than Florida, which is nice because they're closer now) on Wednesday night. The three Sons and I joined them at the lake on Thursday. Two aunts and an uncle joined us later that day, too. And then Daughter #2 came up on Friday.
We had a great time.
I think all of the kids, including my two beautiful nieces, had fun on the boat, tubes, wake boards and jet skis.
And the boat worked fine. Yay boat!
It was so good to see them. I hadn't seen my sister-in-law or nieces since the summer before Jim died. That was our last family vacation .... to Alaska.
I'm so glad we went.
Daughter #2 and I came home this morning.
I had a "coffee date" today.
And it was ok.
Then I came home and did laundry and packed.
And everyone else came here late this afternoon and we all went out to dinner.
One last dinner before my brother drives back home tomorrow.
And then D2 and S! and I went to see "Crazy, Stupid Love" at 10:00 p.m.
I slept on the way to the theatre.
But managed to stay awake IN the theatre. And liked the movie.
Then we came back home and I finished packing.
And now it's almost 4:00 a.m.
Again.
Three nights in a row that I've been awake until 4:00.
Hopefully I'll sleep on the plane in the morning.
That's when I am outta here and outta this crummy, boiling heat.
I'm heading to San Diego to visit J & L & S, Jim's brother and his family. Then I'm going to Camp Widow.
And.
I.
Can't.
Wait!
It will be wonderful to see old friends again and to meet newer friends.
Very wonderful.
But before I go you know it's customary for me to leave you with a question for you all to discuss while I'm away.
I'll still have my computer with me, especially as these are the last few days before CW and there is still a bit more work to do.
I've had a few discussions lately (again) about .... prayer.
A month and a half after Jim died I wrote this post.
My belief about prayer and the way I had always prayed changed drastically on December 18, 2007.
They have not returned to my former beliefs.
I pray.
But I pray much differently now.
Still.
Before Jim died I prayed very specifically.
And many, many times, those prayers were answered in the affirmative.
I don't know why .... I didn't know why then.
Maybe it was because I was more "in touch" with God and so I prayed for things or occurrences that were already in His will.
I don't know.
I do know that God has blessed me with the gift of sometimes just "knowing" things .... without being told, or reading something .... just a deep-feeling knowledge, a certainty, that something has happened or that something is about to happen.
Jim learned to trust this gift over the years and to just go with whatever I said, especially when I would say, "I don't know how I know, I just know."
It's defined as the gift of "Prophecy". It also manifests itself in an ability to read people, to see beneath the surface, to read between the lines, and to tell the "Truth" when I feel God nudging me to say it.
So maybe that "gift" shaped my prayers.
Maybe.
All I know now is that I don't pray that way anymore.
I rarely ask for anything specific.
I don't believe that my prayers cause God to act one way or another.
I don't believe that my prayers cause God to intervene.
I don't believe that my prayers change God's mind.
I don't believe that my prayers cause God to heal anyone.
Not anymore.
I do believe that prayer is for me and for my relationship with God.
I believe that as I pray, I grow closer to God.
I believe that it's best to pray for people that are hoping for a certain outcome.
So I pray for them and for their acceptance of whatever that outcome will be.
I pray for them to experience peace, love and strength .... no matter what.
But enough about me.
What about you?
What do you think about prayer?
Do you pray?
Do you "meditate"?
If you do pray, why?
And have your thoughts about prayer changed over the years? How so?
If you don't pray, why not?
And is that something that has changed over the years?
Please feel free to discuss this as much and as honestly as you can.
There is no judging here.
There is no right or wrong answer.
There is just my curiosity on how people pray .... and why.
I think there's a lot of interest in that topic, from the many things I've heard over the last few years.
So please discuss.
Yes, even you lurkers. :)
And discuss only what you believe, or what your friends have told you they believe.
Please don't comment on what anyone writes .... especially in any negative, critical or judgmental way.
I will delete any comments that are written in that context.
I'm proud to say that I've never experienced that here .... from any of my readers of this blog, so I don't expect any of it now.
You are all wonderfully supportive Peeps and I hope that you'll jump in and discuss.
So, discuss amongst yourselves ..... and enjoy the different viewpoints.
I know I will.
:)
And thanks .... ahead of time.
And Happy Sunday, Peeps.
The next time you hear from me I'll be in a MUCH cooler climate.
YAY!!!!
So ..... Prayer.
Now discuss.
:)
12 comments:
I love this janine. I think the "standard" model of prayer has punishment/reward inherent in it. As in: if you don't get a "good" outcome, it's because you didn't pray enough, or because something was untrue in your heart. Even before matt drowned, I didn't feel prayer could change what is and what will be. For me, I think, I hope, that prayer does just as you said - bring me closer to god. Deepen my relationship with my self and what is true for me, so that I can act from there, in all things. My prayers for the last two years and one month have been - please help me to feel you, even in this. Especially inside of this.
See you soon!
very interesting question. I used to pray much more for specifics; for my husbands counts to return to normal; for him to go into remission; things like that. I can remember one instance clearly when they told me he wasn't going to make it. I went home that night, the kids were somewhere, so the house was quiet. I remember praying out loud, screaming and crying really, that I was too young to be a widow. Well I guess God heard me on that one, because he very unexpectedly went into remission very rapidly. However, when he died 5 months later very unexpectedly (as unexpected as you can get with terminal cancer) I know my prayers changed. I rarely ask for specifics these days; I pray more for strength, understanding, patience, etc; for myself and others. My son is really struggling with this right now. He HATES it when people stand up in church and say their prayers were answered when someone has been really sick and recovers. He wonders why all the prayers for his daddy weren't answered. He is 13 and I know on one level understands but on the surface I understand how difficult it is for him to hear people say things like that.
I am not a widow, so cannot ever begin to understand where the rest of you are. But I do pray. And I mostly pray for strength to carry on, understanding of those who are difficult, and peace with the situation that can't be changed. I am not really aware of 'answers' but then I don't know how things would be without prayer.
We were not a religious family growing up. Prayer has never been a big part of our lives. I try to meditate when possible or writing in a journal. I believe in being spiritual and positive and negative energy. We believe that my husbands soul/spirit is all around us, but I do not pray with my children. I do feel I do not have enough information sometimes when it comes to religion and the kids are being raised in my husbands religion. They can choose as they get older if they want to continue. I like to culture and customs but am not real comfortable with the religious part. (I hope that makes sense.) When my husband was sick, many people told us they were praying for him. It obviously did not help since he is dead. When he came home with Hospice, I realized that from the beginning I knew he would not make it. There was some hope but the more disabled he became, I knew he would not want to live that way. If someone is sick, I do not think that prayer will change the outcome. I have never been mad that he died, just feel guilty sometimes because I did not want him to live because having a severely disabled husband and 3 children would have been a HUGE burden for me. Hope I answered your question with my rambling!
Marie, I hope you can let go of every iota of guilt you sometimes feel. I think that was completely normal. Hugely and completely. If you hadn't felt that way I'd be surprised. Not only would you not have wanted that, but I would take a chance and guess that he would not have wanted that, either. Not for him. Not for the kids. And certainly not for you.
And .... you did not ramble. :)
Thank you, and than You, Anon. I'm glad you posted. This discussion is open to non-widowed people, too.
:)
i don't think God was ever meant to be seen as a genie in a bottle, giving whatever our heart wishes. but i think we miss the thrill of watching God work and his love for us when we stop asking for specifics. When he doesn't answer the way we want, it's not that he doesn't answer or doesn't love us, it's that he loves us enough to give us the better plan that he has in mind. even if that doesn't seem "better" to us. so i say, pray for generalities and pray for specifics, and watch for God to work. and when he doesn't work the way we want, thank him for always loving us.
Well said, Susan. I do the same - pray in general for strength and peace, to see God at work AND for specifics when I feel the need. When I do pray for specifics, it is more conversational than a request. Like just sharing my hopes and wishes with God but knowing that it may or may not be his plan. Often, I pray that God will give me confirmation (some sort of sign) that I am making the right decisions and following his will. And, recently, God has been generous and given me the reassurance I needed. What a cool feeling to know that God has heard you! I do not believe that any amount of praying or begging by "little me" for a particular outcome can change the will or plans of the creator of the universe. I do take comfort in knowing that he does have a plan that is better than anything I could imagine!
I think that God already knows what He is going to do, so why pray? It's not like we are going to change His mind. I pray for the simple fact that it brings me more in fellowship with God. I tell Him my wants, needs, feelings and ask for forgiveness. He wants more than anything to have a relationship with us.
I do agree with anonymous above that God already knows what is going on. But I believe that prayer is not for God, but for us. I believe he calls us to pray and I believe that when we pray it draws us closer to Him. The Bible says that when we draw close to Him, He draws close to us. How to do that? -- through prayer and reading His Word. God wants us to have a relationship with Him. He is not some out-of-reach cosmic being. With prayer and meditation on HIS Word, this can be accomplished. I still ask for specifics, because it does say in the Bible to ask. I admit I do get disappointed when an answer is "no" or "wait". But I must remember (even though it can be very, very difficult) that He knows best and I may NEVER, EVER understand the outcome, at least not on this earth. Prayer is not just for "asking for things". It is a time to worship a Holy God, to humble ourselves before Him, to seek forgiveness, to experience His compassion and love for us, and to receive the peace that passes all understanding.
well said, beth, i couldn't agree more
I posted my comment earlier, but deleted it because there were a few typos and I needed to edit! Here it is again:
After my granddad passed away, I had a hard time praying. I communicated with my Granddad in prayer form and would add the occassional tell God about such-and-such to the end of it. But communicate with God? Nope. I was just too mad. After a few years, my dad had an eye-opening discussion with me. Since then, I have had a deeply held belief that prayer is simply my communication with God. Just like when I'm irritated with my mom, the silent treatment doesn't solve anything. Letting her know my feelings in a respectful way and talking it over with her helps solve the problems. I view prayer with God the same way.
About 6 months ago, I met someone who said something about prayer that angered me and unfortunately (for her!) all of the anger I had stored up for a year after losing my dad spilled out on her. She found out that I had lost my dad, and then she asked me if I believed in the power of prayer. I said I did and her response was (and I quote), "Oh, I was just asking because, you know, God answers prayers and I believe that if you had started a prayer vigil your prayers would have been answered. Did you have a prayer group? That could have helped."
Seriously? She seriously said that to me? Does she really believe that people die because their loved ones were too lazy to pray for them??? I was more than happy to inform her that I didn't equate God with Santa Claus because I believed that He was my Heavenly Father and like all good parents, more often than not, the answer is, "No, because I know what's best." I also let her know that perhaps my mistake was in asking that God heal my dad and so he healed him so completely, that now he's in Heaven where he's healthier and happier than it's possible to be on Earth. See there - answered prayers!
This does not mean that I believe my dad dying was in any way a good thing. I'll just never understand that. I still say that was a pretty crap-tastic decision on God's part. But you know what? I'm not master of the universe and the sooner I get that through my head the better.
My style of prayer has changed drastically since my dad died. I still view prayer as my own personal dialogue with God, but I've given up asking for anything in prayer. Now, the only thing on my "wish list" is that God allow me to be at peace with His decisions. Because I know first hand just how difficult life is when you're not.
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